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The "Other" New Look
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Westchester Avenue near Whitlock, 1972.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153937

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fordham Rd & Cambreleng, 1972.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153956

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prince & 39th, 1981.........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154847

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Westchester Avenue near Whitlock, 1972.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153937

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

The year before Esso became Exxon.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

86th & 3rd, 1981......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155227

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your opinion(s)? Indeed-the workaday "Dangerfield" was-by definition-a "beefier" looking bus than the Fishbowl; in fact-outside of the forward-slanting windows-the "Dangerfield" was clearly a "tough-no nonsense" bus-presenting a heftier look than the Fishbowl; too the windshield was replicated that used on the postwar TWIN COACH "Oddballs"-------now------When the first Fishbowls hit the streets in 1959-their huge windshields were both startling and eye-catching (those windshield were QUITE large!); when the Fishbowl was being designed (and-later-entering fleets across the country)---------I now wonder if there was any concern of the possible lack of structural integrity in front-due to the huge windshields (the "Dangerfields"-again-had that "heftier" look)----------though-of course-if an accident was bad enough-older buses with "scaled down" windshields (Old Looks/"Pattons"/etc) could get pretty battered )-------no doubt that the now-conic Fishbowl was indeed a TOUGH and SOLID bus------I often think about those huge windshields holding up in case of a serious accident (Your's Truly has seen pretty ugly old photos-in this regard)---------"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Your opinion(s)? Indeed-the workaday "Dangerfield" was-by definition-a "beefier" looking bus than the Fishbowl; in fact-outside of the forward-slanting windows-the "Dangerfield" was clearly a "tough-no nonsense" bus-presenting a heftier look than the Fishbowl; too the windshield was replicated that used on the postwar TWIN COACH "Oddballs"-------now------When the first Fishbowls hit the streets in 1959-their huge windshields were both startling and eye-catching (those windshield were QUITE large!); when the Fishbowl was being designed (and-later-entering fleets across the country)---------I now wonder if there was any concern of the possible lack of structural integrity in front-due to the huge windshields (the "Dangerfields"-again-had that "heftier" look)----------though-of course-if an accident was bad enough-older buses with "scaled down" windshields (Old Looks/"Pattons"/etc) could get pretty battered )-------no doubt that the now-conic Fishbowl was indeed a TOUGH and SOLID bus------I often think about those huge windshields holding up in case of a serious accident (Your's Truly has seen pretty ugly old photos-in this regard)---------"NYO"

The initial concerns of lack of structural integrity in Fishbowls, from my understanding, were more on the back side - this was in the "Jetson" era now - which was why there was a workaround to make the rear-window option 4-piece rather than 3-piece as how they were all structured at the start. You can pretty much tell which systems had concerns (or didn't) by what the rear-end windows looked like. I know both "Tee-Yay" and " 'stoa" mandated, starting with their respective late 1965 orders ("Dangerfield" 5601-5790 and "Bullet" 6401-6900), that all rear windows be built 4-piece and arrive from the factory that way. Evidently maintenance and repair shop personnel preferred the 4-piece because they were easier to maintain and cheaper to replace individual windows than with the 3-piece. Certainly this was the case with the Fishbowls; must've been also true for their "Dangerfields." "N'awlins," by contrast, seemed not to have too many concerns about structural integrity, as their Fishbowl fleets by and large were 3-piece in the back. But also, on the "Jetsons" the standee windows were much wider than all "Bullets" with same. That may've had a bearing on structural integrity back then.

And that was why all A/C's from 1966-67 through the early '70's - whether Fishbowl or "Dangerfield" - had 4-piece rear windows. (Of course, come the 1974-77 "Dangerfields," that was a whole 'nother thing.)

Since you mentioned the "Dangerfield's" look - yeah, it did have more of a "working class" vibe to its appearance, vs. the Fishbowls' middle- to upper-middle class projection. That may be why, up to the 1974-77 orders, none of the "Dangerfield" orders had allotments to Manhattan, and certainly forget about the "tonier" areas of same. In short, "elegance" comes to mind with the Fishbowls.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WB: EXCELLENT posting; a lot of highly-detailed info here! (thanks for posting!) Wink Too------look at the rear windows of later "Dangerfields" (here I clearly recall those 1976/1977 NJDOT buses); you could see that the rear window had originally been larger by the filled-in area surrounding the new style window; I always thought that this had to do with added stability for the a/c units (recall by 1976 the original Flex "New Look" design was already 15 years old----------Agreed: the Fishbowl indeed appeared to be an "stylish" bus-whereas the "Dangerfield" (like the old "Pattons") had the decided look of a tough "working-class" bus--------"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the classic Fishbowl-the "Dangerfield" was once in great profusion-both in "Noo Yawk" and here in "New Joisey"; as the years wore on-what was once yesterday's "just another bus" was now a rare sighting-and-in the end-but a fond recollection of another era-----I STILL stand by the opinion that the "Dangerfield"-----still-to this day-has not yet garnered the proper respect to which it was due---despite the fact that 60-odd years has past-----"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting: Look at the hundreds of suburban Fishbowls built during the 1960's and 1970's------and-on the flip side-only 128 "Dangerfield" suburbans were built between 1964 and 1965------quite telling indeed--------"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also----------it would hae been interesting indeed had the "Tee-Yay" purchased suburban "Dangerfields" when they instituted express runs to "The Island of Staten" across the new Narrows bridge-back in the 1960's---------NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Interesting: Look at the hundreds of suburban Fishbowls built during the 1960's and 1970's------and-on the flip side-only 128 "Dangerfield" suburbans were built between 1964 and 1965------quite telling indeed--------"NYO"

I saw, in 1978 from my window looking north to the ramp from the PABT to the Lincoln Tunnel, what looked like suburban second-hand "Dangerfields" passing through. This was before the NJDOT got their set.
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Also----------it would hae been interesting indeed had the "Tee-Yay" purchased suburban "Dangerfields" when they instituted express runs to "The Island of Staten" across the new Narrows bridge-back in the 1960's---------NYO"

From what we both commented on the "Dangerfields" projecting and coveying a "working class" appearance as opposed to the more "elegant" and "stylish" Fishbowls?! Wink However, SI did eventually get express "Dangerfields." In 1977.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WB: Look at how long it took to get "Dangerfields" on the "Island of Staten" express runs; after all-by 1977-"Dangerfields" had already been in the fleet since about 1963/1964------quite a lengthy wait to gain a little "prestige"---------"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of related interest-------in one of Your's Truly's "sideline" collections there resides a die-cast (1970s?) fire truck; what is interesting here is that the windshields look like enlarged "Dangerfield" windshields; I had seen actual engines like this in the distant past (I cannot recall the builder)- but the "inspiration" was indeed there---------"NYO"
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