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Single-end or double-ended streetcars in Brooklyn & byon

 
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:19 pm    Post subject: Single-end or double-ended streetcars in Brooklyn & byon Reply with quote

I begin this thread motivated by the photo shown in this post on another thread
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Here's one of the handsome 6000 series car at Park Row, post-1944; these cars (built by BRILL and OSGOOD-BRADLEY) were, basically, updated versions of the older Peter Witts, which were quite plentiful in Brooklyn for many years.

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt713.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

Until NYO posted that photo of 6059 on the Park Row loop, I thought that Peter Witts had to be double-ended, as the 8000's were. Just a little bit of research found single-end Peter Witts in Toronto and other cities. Thanks for introducing this topic, which I will continue later.
Joe McMahon
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

Though clearly B&QT's 6000 series were indeed inspired by the Peter Witt, I have never heard them ever referred to as "Peter Witts"*, only reference I've heard towards these cars were the "6000's" (Stan Fischler has referred to them as "The Great Pretenders")

These cars also had entrance turnstiles where passengers dropped their nickles, and automatic, treadle-operated rear doors.

The 6000's had leather seats, while the later 6100's had wood-slat seating; the 6100's also had an electric "NEXT CAR" sign on the front side panel.

The venerable 6000 series cars served many lines, including:

CHURCH

NOSTRAND

FLATBUSH

GATES

PUTNAM

FULTON

These cars were retired in 1951; sadly, none were saved.........

"NYO"

*Recall, also, Baltimore's Peter Witts, which ran until the mid-1950's; I have long referred to these cars as "Witt-less Witts" as they have a more angular, "tougher" look that the "standard" Peter Witt found in other cities (Baltimore's Peter Witts were all single-ended, but, like the PCC's, also had back-up controls for use in carbarn and yard areas)
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What struck me in my youth was the tremendous difference between the TARS streetcars and the hundred PCC's of Brooklyn. On the TARS system, there were rare loops, Classon Point and New Rochelle. On the Brooklyn trolley lines, loops had to be provided for Smith-Coney Island, McDonald-Vanderbilt, Seventh Avenue, and Church Avenue (the PCC routes I knew) and for Flatbush and other routes that had 6000's.
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Many of the loops were sensible, going around a block, or the Park Row loop, or running around the property of the Maspeth carbarn. A few loops were tight, squealing loops that may have kept residents awake all night long.
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In the long run, at the height of the PCC era in our country, there were few double-ended PCC's. Philadelphia may have been in the best shape because of its one-way streets and the ease of adding a turn-back between two streets. I can recall riding a southbound 23 when a radio dispatcher caught up to us and told the motorman to send the passengers to the follower and turn back, all to fill in a northbound hole that had developed.
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I wonder whether Brooklyn had single-ended streetcars prior to the 6000's, and what caused the B&QT to build loops on heavier lines.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

PE ("Red Car") operated a small fleet of double-ended PCC's, beginning in 1940; these cars were later sold, and ended their days in Brazil, operating off of third rail, in MU trains.

ILLINOIS TERMINAL also ran double-ended PCC's, as did Dallas.

In later years, the Dallas double-ended PCC's went to the MTA in Boston (for service on the Mattapan-Ashmont shuttle); in their last years, they were converted into single-ended cars, which gave them an ungainly look, when viewed from the rear.

Regarding single-end cars in Brooklyn, prior to the 6000's, it seems that (from photos in my books) that the only single-ended cars in earlier days were certain singe-truck units.

However, in 1927, B&QT rebuilt eight 3900 series convertibles into single-ended (non convertible) cars for service on the Canarsie shuttle........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCC #1030 at the 1st Avenue loop (as you can see, this loop was QUITE tight).......

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt091.htm

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

From my research yesterday (see photos and notes in my ongoing thread), it is clear that the 6000's WERE indeed Peter Witts, even though the books I have on Brooklyn streetcars failed to classify them as such.

Again, I see my deep-seated hunch was right all along, but, I figured that other rail historians might be much better informed and knowledgeable than Your's Truly, especially if they grew up in Brooklyn during that era........

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 8:19 pm    Post subject: Single-end or double-ended streetcars in Brooklyn & beyo Reply with quote

I understand that PCC streetcars are a different category than light rail in Sacramento. In 2007, I enjoyed riding the entire Sacramento system, which at that time used high-floor cars with deep stairwells on both sides. I learned something when I left my seat as we were quickly approaching Power Inn, where I intended to use the lavatory in a fast-food restaurant. The strong deceleration sent me lurching into the stairwell. I appreciate quick acceleration and braking, but that stairwell was a danger.
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Later, I looked around and realized that the stairwells on both sides used up seat space. Sacramento RT had single-track stations, so they needed to open on left or right sides, but it is a loss in comfort. I noticed quite a few travelers seated on the stairwell steps. Double-ended cars can also use frequent turnbacks and thus add versatility.
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