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MaBSTOA T6H-5309A (and El replacement buses)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13625
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:15 pm    Post subject: MaBSTOA T6H-5309A (and El replacement buses) Reply with quote

In "WELCOME ABOARD THE GM NEW LOOK BUS" (McKane/Squier) there is a photo of MaBSTOA #4841 at 149th & 3rd.

According to the photo caption, these buses were purchased to replace the Bronx portion of the 3rd Avenue El in 1973.

A few questions:

How many buses were in this order?

What route # was used for buses operating along the former El route?

What depot were they based at?

When were they retired?

Thanks in advance for any info...........

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bx55 (the route created to replace the Third Avenue el) was apparently based out of Coliseum depot (as were Bx5, Bx5A, Bx7, Bx8, Bx9, Bx12, Bx12A, Bx12B, Bx13, Bx14, Bx15, Bx15A, Bx15B, Bx15C, Bx16, Bx18, Bx22, Bx23, Bx40, Bx49 and Bx52); the T6H-5309A's allotted there were numbered 4840 through 4859, out of an initial 60-bus order (4800-4859) for MaBSTOA as was built between December 1972 and January 1973. 4800-4819 were placed for the then-new Hudson depot (Pier 57) in Manhattan (and were fixtures of such routes as M11 and M16 for years), while 4820-4839 went to Kingsbridge. (Another set of buses, 4860-4919, was built between July and August 1973, and would be the last GMC Fishbowls ever ordered by MTA; all 60 of those buses went to Kingsbridge, enabling the retirement of the last of the remaining 1960 FACL/ST Fishbowls.)

Parallel to that 12/72-1/73 order, were T6H-5310A's 4500-4505 for MaBSTOA (all went to 100th Street where they and converted A/C batwing Fishbowls 8459-8477 would be fixtures of express bus service in Manhattan for years) and 6901-6956 for the 'Tee-Yay'; plus a final set of 5309A's for the TA, 6200-6349. This would lead to the retirement of the last 'Old Looks'.

As of January 1, 1973 (before the Bx55 entered service), besides T6H-5309A's 4840-4859, the other buses in the Coliseum lot were (all TDH-5303's except where noted):
- 3343-3356, 3358-3427 (1963)
- 6650-6705, 6778-7965, 6899-6900 (1965-66)
plus Flxible 111CC-D5-1's 4664-4727 (1969-70; 4600-4663 were stationed at West Farms)

The reasoning seemed to be, given that Bx55 was a new route, it should get the newest buses. Don't think I've seen older models used on Bx55.

It is possible some of the Coliseum 5309A's were among those rebuilt by Blitz, scattered around the system over the years, and retired in the mid-1990's.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

As usual, a wealth of interesting historical information, given in great detail....thanks once again! Wink

I just dug out this 1974 photo of MaBSTOA #6456 threading its way through the remaining columns of the old 3rd Avenue El, which had ceased operations the previous year.

The bus is displaying a (miniscule!) "SPECIAL" reading on the roller curtain.........

"NYO"

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1039

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
W.B.:

As usual, a wealth of interesting historical information, given in great detail....thanks once again! Wink

I just dug out this 1974 photo of MaBSTOA #6456 threading its way through the remaining columns of the old 3rd Avenue El, which had ceased operations the previous year.

The bus is displaying a (miniscule!) "SPECIAL" reading on the roller curtain.........

"NYO"

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1039

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

From my notes, 6456 was a Kingsbridge bus.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undated photo of Fishbowl #4313 "making the rounds" at 3rd Avenue & 34th St.

A few decades earlier, ancient MUDC's and "Q" cars would have been rumbling and rattling overhead on the spindly, shadowy El.........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1609

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the aforementioned "NEW LOOK BUS" book......

"SPECIAL MODELS FOR NEW YORK CITY"

"..........when New York's MTA ordered fourth Generation New look buses for its operating agencies (NYCTA/MaBSTOA/METROPOLITAN SUBURBAN) numerous internal secs were modified....."

".........as a result, Truck & Coach Division, with the concurrence of the involved public agencies, assigned separate model numbers. The buses were all forty feet long and 102 inches wide, were air-conditioned, and had 6V-71 diesel engines with VH-9 Allison two-speed transmissions......."

".....the 'bowling alley' perimeter seating for 43 passengers was similar to earlier TDH-5303's for New York........"

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Undated photo of Fishbowl #4313 "making the rounds" at 3rd Avenue & 34th St.

A few decades earlier, ancient MUDC's and "Q" cars would have been rumbling and rattling overhead on the spindly, shadowy El.........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1609

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

Must've been after the Grumman fiasco, where all sorts of buses (in this case, the 1970-71 T6H-5305A's) saw service on OA routes; apparently the only 'Tee-Yay' buses never assigned to OA depots were the 1964-65 and 1965-66 Flxible F26DV-401-1's - not even to the Manhattan TA depot. (I say this because a few 1963 TA buses by 1981 wound up at 54th Street and served the M103; and some of the 1969-70 A/C Flxibles for the TA were plying the M104.)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

You made a comment that I have long thought of discussing here with "The Pro Team" (names available on request!) Wink

When the ill-fated GRUMMANS were all pulled from service, I can imagine that there must have been quite a bit of "depot shuffling" and scrambling about to try to fill the void left with by the GRUMMANS.

With the GRUMMANS, my memories of them always (for whatever reason) pretty much seem to be nearly always in the vicinity of the IRT 72nd St. headhouse.

(I am sure that a lot of die-hard Fishbowl and Flex fans were pretty happy to see the "rescue squad" trek up to the Big Apple from DC!)

Yep, I remember it well........ Rolling Eyes

(I was also nearly 40 years younger, then!) Shocked
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadway & 170th, 1982.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1260

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Queens Blvd & 41st Avenue.............

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3254

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

81st St. & Central Park West, 1982.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3253

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flex #9300, seen here rumbling along former 3rd Avenue "El" territory (3rd Avenue & 108th), 1981......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3248

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rd Avenue & 111St., 1981........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3251

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rd Avenue & 34th, 1982......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1173

(courtesy: bus. nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Former territory of the old 2nd Avenue El (2nd Ave & 34th, 1971) *

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1196

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

*Another of those "Gee, where did all the years go" Noo Yawk photos; note the oh-sp-once-commonplace TV repair shop, still displaying the old "MU" (MUrray Hill) exchange!

That dates the photo as much as the bus does (and don't overlook the classic "DON'T WALK" sign!
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