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'VINTAGE NEW YORK CITY'
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NorthShore



Age: 74
Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the former White Plains Bus Terminal. The structure still exists, but no longer used. There is a new terminal near the MetroNorth station today.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NorthShore,

With all due respect, your belief that # 1212 was built in 1934 is absolutely incorrect!

1212 and its ilk were built on Yellow Coach chassis' in 1930 with bodies by Fifth Avenue Coach Manufacturing Company, and were the last to have an open rear entry two man operation.

Coaches 1240 to 1243 on the same 'Z' chassis which followed 1200 to 1239 in the next year (1931) were fully enclosed with an interior stairway with entry and exit as one opening just aft of the rear door which still required a two man operation.

That two man operation was eliminated in the same year with the building of 1244 to 1299 (also 'Z' chassis' built on FACCO bodies) and was not only fully enclosed with an interior stairway but also began FACCO's era of standardized front entry and separate rear exit doors with the driver handling all fares (#1263 is preserved by the NYMTA).

The next buses to appear for FACCO were the 1936 Queen Mary's which were completely fabricated by Yellow Coach.

You can learn more about the complete history of Fifth Avenue in 'New York Fifth Avenue Coach Company 1885-1960' by Oliver J. Ogden (an Iconografix publication).

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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NorthShore



Age: 74
Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Garwood Coach Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Once in a great while I discover a picture that's worth many times more than the thousand words expressed in the old adage.

Thanks to the New York Public Library Digital Gallery for this shot of several 1940/41 Yellow Coach Model TD 4502's languishing at a Surface Transportation System facility probably in the Bronx or lower Westchester while awaiting that last ride to their final resting place.

The 4502's, of which the company purchased fifty (1011 to 1060), were among the first 45 passenger coaches from GM's Yellow division in what was then dubbed as the 'new streamlined transit' which eventually came to be called the 'Old Look' design.

You'll note that 'cannibalization' of parts has already started with the headlight sockets being first to go.

The strange looking shoe like vehicle in front of the line is a mystery to me.

Enjoy,

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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NorthShore



Age: 74
Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vehicle is neither an amusement park ride nor is it from outer space. It is a Garwood Coach.
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 68
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 956

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was this Garwood owned/operated by Surface Transportation?

Also, is the FACCo #303 in the New York City Museum fleet the oldest preserved bus in the U.S.?

Any updates on their new acquisitions, #s 327 and 1592?

Thanks to all
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15

To my knowledge, and as far as any literature that I've seen goes, Surface never owned or demoed a (excuse the expression) 'Gar Wood'.

Not long after I published the original photo I learned that it was a Gar Wood which, incidentally, I always equated with refuse truck bodies (which they still do make).

BTW; while the exterior of the Gar Wood still looks like an old shoe to me, its interior wasn't that bad as seen below - I especially like the fancy little crystal light fixtures fastened to the tops of the passenger windows (see photos below).

FACCO's 1917 #303 is close to but not exactly the oldest preserved coach with the records of the Motor Bus Society showing a 1906 Pierce Arrow Motor Car Company Great Arrow Omnibus originally owned by White Mountain Tavern and now (as of 1989) in the possession of The Museum of Transportation of Brookline, Ma.

Nothing yet on the MTA Museum's two FACCO Yellows that they just acquired.

Upper plate thanks to '4509bus'
Lower plate carries credit within frame.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'


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3-D Bob



Age: 67
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Bronx, NY

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Great color scenes of Brooklyn Trackless Trolleys late 50's Reply with quote

Here is a link to a film about subways and elevated trains. If you skip to the 30:00 point there are some great color scenes of the trackless trolley electro buses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWZcRo8wyO0
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like more than one tree really did grown in Brooklyn back in the late forties as we see fleet #960 - a 37 passenger 1939 Mack Model 'Improved' (improved meaning an angled windshield) CT-3G and one of seventy-five likenesses numbered 900 to 974 operating for the City of New York Board of Transportation's Brooklyn Bus Division.

Purchased new by the defunct Brooklyn and Manhattan Transit Company's (BMT) Brooklyn Bus Corporation subsidiary in trade for fifty of the properties early thirties Mack model BT's, the 900's arrived in sharp looking all ivory bodies with wide fire engine red bands below the belt lines carrying the company flags and, between the headlamps, the familiar Trylon and Perisphere symbols of the New York World's Fair for which the buses were to serve.

Of note on #960 are the fresh air intakes to either side of the destination sign connected to a New York required full time mechanical ventilation system and sets of old fashioned horizontal sweep windshield wipers with bent arms to accommodate the angled windshield.

#960 and a sibling following it are seen on the #11 49th. Street/53rd. Street line heading for Fifth Avenue.

With the advent of the post war flooding of Brooklyn with new equipment in the late forties, #960 and its ilk all found themselves in early retirement by 1950.

Photo courtesy of 'Vintage-Vault75' and is available at eBay as item # 171056416798.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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3-D Bob



Age: 67
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Bronx, NY

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky...I have only recently joined "Bus Talk" and I must tell you how much I enjoy the site in general and your posts in particular. The wealth of information you possess and freely share is encyclopedic, not only an enjoyable education in itself, but staggering in it's volume and accurate detail. I grew up in the Bronx 3 short blocks from Southern Boulevard in the latter half of the fifties and remember to this day my first ride on a Surface Transport GM "old style". Those buses had a hell of a lot of character and personality even then and impacted me greatly. Due to the heavy bus traffic on the boulevard I was able to experience the variety of great color schemes of Surface, Fifth Ave. Coach with the great roof script as well as noting the differences between GM and Mack buses even back then. My interest became rekindled when I encountered the Corgi models when introduced a decade or so ago, (and yes, I did notice the squareness as opposed to the smooth roundness of the rear treatment) but all in all they were "close enough for Jazz" ! The Surface paint scheme from my experience was the later solid red and tan, and when I dove into the Corgi's I was intending to paint one to match. Amazingly for me, someone posted a custom painted version on Ebay that matched my memories and saved me considerable labor. The fellow even went as far as to augment the model with additional roof ventilators and detail. One evening recently I searched online for photos of vintage buses and wound up here. The first images I pulled up were your series of Surface Transport vehicles. Imagine the shock on my kisser when up comes the photo of bus # 1173. It was the exact bus this fellow modeled, even down to the number !!! Here I am looking at the screen and the same thing in the palm of my hand !! If I can figure out how to post images here I will share this with you and anyone else interested. The guy did a reasonable job on the model, it has a label that says "BC Transit Historical Coaches" but it was years ago and I cannot find a trace of him or it. But now I know where he got the reference image. I look forward to your future posts, thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
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frankie



Age: 75
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 737
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
It looks like more than one tree really did grown in Brooklyn back in the late forties as we see fleet #960

Purchased new by the defunct Brooklyn and Manhattan Transit Company's (BMT) Brooklyn Bus Corporation subsidiary in trade for fifty of the properties early thirties Mack model BT's, the 900's arrived in sharp looking all ivory bodies with wide fire engine red bands below the belt lines carrying the company flags and, between the headlamps, the familiar Trylon and Perisphere symbols of the New York World's Fair for which the buses were to serve.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York


Being born and raised in Brooklyn, I've always joked with people that when I moved out, the tree died! The sap left!

With regards to #960, is it just the photo or is the area from roof to bottom before the rear quarter window to the back a different color than the rest of the bus?

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3-D Bob,

I'm at a loss for words but I think my face tells the story!

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankie,

After the most beautiful letter to me from 3-D Bob above, I am ashamed to say that I can't figure out what the livery on Brooklyn # 960 is (although I do know what it should have been!).

At the time the photo was taken in 1948, all of Brooklyn's seventy-five CT's had long since been repainted by the city in their then very very drab silver and green scheme (as can be seen on another CT behind #960 in the photo).

#960 makes no sense at all; you can actually still see the remnant of the 'BROOKLYN BUS CORP.' flag just below the belt line which has been painted out.

There is no city emblem amidships, the fleet number under the windshield appears to be in the original Brooklyn style and the very light color that you mention aft of the rear door is not the sun.

My only explanation for #960 is that it may have been in such bad shape that it was reduced to an emergency spare and someone in the shops was playing around with the paint job.

I know it's not a very professional opinion but that's about all I can come up with.

BTW; a photo of Brooklyn # 967 may be seen as delivered in 1939 on page 16 of the June/July 1975 Motor Coach Age (a copy of which was just sold by '4509bus' on eBay).

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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NorthShore



Age: 74
Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it have been possibly repainted by Brooklyn Bus Corp. in their older dark red and cream paint scheme?
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NorthShore wrote:
Could it have been possibly repainted by Brooklyn Bus Corp. in their older dark red and cream paint scheme?



NorthShore,

I don't think so - these buses were delivered in 1939 in time for the first season at the World's Fair and only one year later were sold along with the entire BMT operation including the IRT, and the Brooklyn & Queens Transit Company to the City of New York.

I also think that the 900's reflected a new image for the company by replacing their long standing ivory over fire engine red livery with all ivory and just a touch of red under the belt line.

Of course, the 900's were the last buses ever bought by Brooklyn Bus so we'll really never know about such a change - they may just have wanted something a little different to show off at the Fair.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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Old Look 4007



Age: 74
Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 19
Location: Stamford, CT

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: The Elusive Shoe Bus and other Weird Stuff Reply with quote

Mr L,

Thanks for much for posting yet another ad of the Shoe Bus!

I recall a post a few years ago of the Shoe Bus shown with several Surface

buses that were being scrapped.

The gang identified it as a Gar-Wood. And concurred Surface never ran any.

If my memory services me correctly, Garwwods were run by The Short Line

and later became Aerocoaches.

Aerocoach never gets much press on the bpard for some reason.

I saw my first Aerocoach P series on a family trip my family made from Stamford CT to St Petersburg NY in 1956! My dad made the trip a birthday present the me so I could ride the 'double double' bus.

Saw my first Aerocoach on a tour and immediately ran to look at the rear of the bus. What a treat....the engine was painted Red and was an Internatonal Harvester.

When we arrived back to New York where I saw my first Yellow gas model 1210 run by the Asbury Park- New York Bus People.

The emblem was missing ......and I found out in the 1980s from Bob Redden
at one of bus bashes the the bus was a Yellow Coach. Bob was a great man and I was a subscriber to publications the entire time.

Also I loved watching the GM 4101 from Asbury Coach speeding down the Garden State Pkwy to the Monmouth Bus Garage. They were a big treat.

Perhaps some day some one will publish a BOOK showing the front AND read engines shots and and engine cover hatches/screens.

It gets a bit expensive buying shop manuals just for the pictures!

I think by weird interest in these parts is kinda strange even for a bus fan.

This is a GREAT group and I read Bus Talk every morning.

Thank you, guys!
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