BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

Just to give you an idea of how busy GM was at making buses back in the 50's, we see the promotional photo below taken at the Pontiac, Michigan plant in 1953 as new coaches enter their final inspection phase before being rolled out to the yard for delivery.

This was a red-letter day for the company as seen by the banner noting that the 4512 being checked out in the front of the line was the 30,000th. GM Diesel Coach to be manufactured - certainly a milestone and a well deserved one for the best bus maker on the planet!

While the destination of the transits is unknown to me, I can tell you that the first PD 4104 on the next assembly line was on its way to the American Stages division of the Illini-Swallow Lines of Champaign, Illinois.

Photo courtesy of 4509bus and was sold on eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[traildriver]

[Mr. Linsky]

In another glowing ad (dated 1941) extolling the virtues of GM's new Yellow Coach Diesel Hydraulics we see as its focus a letter of commendation from none other than Slaughter (great first name!) W. Huff then president of Third Avenue Railway System (TARS) of upper Manhattan, New York.

The pictured bus, fleet # 1016, was a 1940 Model TD 4502 and one of ten likenesses numbered from 1011 to 1020 delivered to TARS subsidiary Surface Transportation System of New York (STS) in that year and were only the second order of buses ever for the division from Yellow with the first being ten 1939 Model 746 Diesel Electrics (a 746 demonstrator preceded this order the year before).

# 1016 is shown in a livery that was adopted by the company in the late thirties but was replaced immediately after the war by the familiar angel wings and bib design used through the early fifties.

It would seem as though the advertisement might have been devised specifically for railway companies contemplating changeovers from trolleys to buses.

Photo courtesy of 4509bus and is up for bid on eBay in the form of a four page brochure as item # 370622844941.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[HwyHaulier]

MR 'L' -

Couldn't help but note the detail in the Cleveland testimonial. Here it is, seven decades later. All that time, with endless "new designs"
and other fads of the moment. Many of present day, forty (40) seat coaches do no better on "fuel burn" than the performance noted...

GM took a wise course in its advertising copy. They named names. So that any potential buyers knew who to call, gathering guidance
and ideas on any possible purchase. As always the case, the guys in the business knew the other guys in the trade...

The San Francisco remarks hint Market Street Railway had replaced older, gasoline fueled coaches...

The GM promotion, too, an announcement its Detroit Diesel operation ready to supply its awaited Diesel motor. It also marked the
development that the Gas-Electric or Diesel-Electric platform had become obsolete...

....................Vern................

[Mr. Linsky]

The short blurb under the attached image taken in June of 1946 harks the arrival of new 'DE LUXE' passenger buses for Manhattan's Madison Avenue line and touts the ease in which a pretty young lady can open a window (you couldn't try that a couple of years down the road because they didn't work that well any more!).

The bus - a 1946 GM Model TD-4506 and one of twenty-five numbered from 1700 to 1724 was delivered to Chicago based Omnibus Corporation affiliate Madison Avenue Coach Company, Inc. (MACCO) of Manhattan, New York only weeks before the shot was taken.

While the upholstery is Velour (get's pretty sticky in the summer months!), the rest of the interior trim still shows signs of material shortages immediately after the war in the form of painted steel passenger hand rails, standee straps and seat backs in place of stainless steel.

One curiosity is the strange vent in the aisle floor amidships - I don't remember that feature on Green Line's (NY) 4506's.

Photo courtesy of the New York Bureau of the Chicago Tribune and is up for sale as 'Buy It Now' on eBay through tribunephotos as item # 251088597921.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[JimmiB]

Kind of looks like an access hatch but I can't think of anything at that spot that would need access. You're sure right about the window latches. Once they started to corrode you needed a hammer to open them.

[Mr. Linsky]

JimmiB,

Nothing a nice can of WD-40 wouldn't have solved! - unfortunately, it wasn't invented yet.

About the only thing that I can think of with the floor vent might be that it was an optional underfloor heater that Omnibus specified for their equipment - our 4506's at Green Line (NY) had well placed under seat heaters as did all following 'Old Look' models that the company bought.

I'm waiting for one of the mavens at GM Old Look to come up with an answer.

Regards and Happy Fourth,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

JimmiB,

I just thought about another even more logical reason for the opening in the floor.

It may be a drain outlet used when the bus floors are flushed out by hose at the garage.

If so, it would mean that there would have to have been a valve or damper of some kind to prevent fumes and cold air from entering the cabin during normal operation.

Just an idea.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

Pictured below in what are obviously promotional shots is fleet # 605 - a 1950 GM Coach Model TDM 4509 and one of thirteen likenesses numbered from 601 to 611 and 701 to 702 delivered in increments between 1950 and 1951 to the Baltimore and Annapolis Railroad Company of Baltimore, Maryland.

The 35 foot long, 96 inch wide TDM 4509 was an odd bird because of its transit underpinnings and was the first truly purpose built single door suburban of the paired window class by GM with 555 specimens produced between 1949 and 1953.

While it retained the optional ThermoMatic heating and ventilation system seen on most of its urban cousins, it did feature comfortable high back seats, parcel racks and full drop sash passenger windows.

In an upgrade of the model introduced in 1953 and dubbed the 4515, the ThermoMatic system was eliminated, but air suspension, fresh air dampers under the destination sign, modernized engine air intakes and updated GM badges were added to what was otherwise an identical body.

If you think you might recognize the smartly attired chauffeur in the images, his name was Vernon C. Dotson.

All photos taken by Joshua S. Cosden of the Baltimore Sun and are available as either by bid or Buy It Now on eBay through tribunephotos as item #'s 261060594723 (exterior), 280915370783 (interior), 251101564422 (front view) and 251101580135 (front door w/stick).

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

Great photos Mr. L! This has got to be the first time that I've seen an old look (or any bus for that matter) with an opened side emergency door! I often wondered what they looked like! Now I know.

Frankie

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

On very hot days when we would lay over off the beaten path so to speak such as on the Q 10 line down at Richmond Hill Circle by JFK Airport, we would open the emergency door for a little more air.

Something funny about that particular photo; on the back are the usual scribblings that include a notation that these buses had 'kick open' passenger windows.

Of course, that was false but the person that made the notation obviously had no knowledge of what they were looking at and thought the open emergency door was such a window.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

The ad below, taken from an early 1953 issue of Bus Transportation Magazine (my Bible), touts GM's 40 foot 51 passenger transit line showing seven operators with three from the New York City area that have already purchased what would have been pre air suspended TDH (or M) 5103's and 5104's (the New York City based examples are the lowest three pictured and include (top to bottom) Queens/Nassau Transit Lines., Surface Transportation System of New York and Green Bus Lines, Inc).

The blurb also lists tentative buyers for 1954's models which would have been TDH (or M) 5105's and 5106's and, while not mentioned, would have been air rides.

I guess it must be the lawyer that's still left in me because I always seem to find an error especially in GM's advertisements which, in this case, would be the listing of Metropolitan Coach Lines of Los Angeles (MCL) as scheduled to receive 100 51's in 1954.

While MCL did receive 100 GM Coaches in that year, they were the slightly shorter TDH 4801's which complied with a special California axle load limit rule at the time.

Photo from the hoteldennis collection at Flickr.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

What I don't understand is why was Pacific Greyhound allowed to use the 51's in their fleet and not MCL if California was imposing the axle load limit law? PG operated these buses in and around the San Francisco area.

Frankie

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

Very simple answer to your question;

Amendment to the California axle law passed and became effective in mid 1953.

All major operators in California including Pacific Electric, Pacific Greyhound, Los Angeles Transit Lines, and Key Systems did purchase 5103's before that time.

The Pacific Greyhound model in the photo was one of thirty-seven TDM 5103's delivered in June of 1951.

In actuality, Pacific Greyhound is also in error on that list because they received seventy-five TDM 4801's in March of 1954.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[traildriver]

I notice that the PGL's were one door models, but not 'suburban's'. Is that a unique configuration, or were there other operatior's of that spec.?