BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

So, where do you suppose the MTA came up with the flag 'New York City Bus' if not from the 1920 photograph below?

The pictured coach, with an unknown body and chassis, is operating in emergency service for the City of New York Department of Plant and Structures (DPS) and is boarding passengers for a trip on what was to become the M-1 Madison/Chambers crosstown line in lower Manhattan which it had taken over from an abandoned New York Railway's battery car operation in 1919.

The DPS emergency fleet, made up of well over 200 owner/driver contractors, was kept on retainer to fill in on both deserted and newly created routes until permanent and responsible operators could be found.

Many of these former Jitneys amalgamated to incorporate Green Bus Lines in 1925 and then won permits to operate on a number of crosstown lines including the M-1.

Photo from the City of New York Department of Records (Manhattan Borough President) archive under Bridges, Plant & Structures and is for sale.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

[Mr. Linsky]

[Mr. Linsky]

According to the sun dial (or a reasonable facsimile) it's noon time in Flushing on March 7th. of 1942 as we see a 1937 ACF Model H-16-S sans a visible fleet designation but still one of fifty-five likenesses numbered between 20 and 74 delivered to the Queens/Nassau Transit Lines of College Point, New York in that year.

Our focus is boarding passengers along Main Street just north of Roosevelt Avenue which seems to have been a hub for the company with buses radiating from that point to Woodside, College Point and Jamaica on the Q66, Q34 and Q25 lines respectively although, with an illegible destination sign, it is difficult to say which of those routes the subject bus is on.

Queens/Nassau Transit Lines began its bus services in Northern Queens by assuming the routes of a number of long time traction companies in the early thirties which later included the lines of William Steinway of piano making fame - thus, the name Steinway Omnibus Corporation appeared in 1939.

The merged entities also ran the Queensborough Bridge Railway Company with trolley service between Queens Plaza in Long Island City and 2nd. Avenue in Manhattan until 1957 making it the last in the city to shut down.

The uniformed gentleman standing on street side at the driver's window was undoubtedly a company starter or inspector whose job was to keep the buses rolling on time even if it meant collecting fares by hand machine at the rear door.

Starters and inspectors, most often former drivers, gained their promotions usually because of disabilities that impaired their skills behind the wheel.

Photo from City of New York Department of Records (Queens Borough President) archive and is for sale as item # 07484-C.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[N4 Jamaica]

Note Nedick's on the west side of Main St. just south of Roosevelt Avenue. I think a glass of orange juice cost five cents, 1947 or so.

[Mr. Linsky]

In a photograph taken in May of 1940 and looking southwest on 109th. Avenue between 157th. and 159th. Streets in South Jamaica, Queens we see the grade level Long Island Railroad South Shore spur from Jamaica passing through with a pedestrian underpass as was the case in many urban areas where grade crossing elimination was impossible.

Coincidentally, the referenced intersection also happened to be the southern terminus of the then Manhattan and Queens Bus Corporation's (M&Q) single two zone route which took it from South Jamaica via Queens Boulevard and the Queensborough Bridge to 2nd. Avenue and 60th. Street in Manhattan.

Also, coincidentally, we see two of M&Q's thirty 1937 Mack Model CT-3S's (numbered 101 to 130) in the background standing at layover and awaiting their next city bound sojourns.

The Manhattan & Queens Bus Corporation, founded in 1937, succeeded the Manhattan & Queens Traction Company which began service on what is now known as the Q60 in 1913.

The company was acquired by Green Bus Lines in 1943 but continued to operate under the M&Q flag until its State Public Service certificate expired in 1947.

Photo from City of New York Department of Records (Queens Borough President) archive and is for sale as item # 04021-C.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

If the perspective in the accompanying photo is anything near correct, then you'll know why it took so many buses to replace so few street cars!

The trolley in the image, operating the Route 1 line for the Third Avenue Railway System (TARS), is monstrous as compared the GM TDH 4507 (one of the largest transit buses of its time) standing next to it and operating for the commonly owned Surface Transportation System of New York.

There is something about the photo, which appears to have been taken in the upper reaches of The Bronx as evidenced by both the New York City fire hydrant (foreground) and lamp post partially hidden behind the bus, that isn't quite right.

TARS Route #1 is listed as the Broadway/Warburton line in Yonkers and, according to the October 1970 issue of Motor Coach Age devoted to TARS/Surface Westchester operations, did not travel inter county.

In that I am not that familiar with what the trolley scene was like in the New York metro area, I'll have to let the experts have the last word on this point.

Photo courtesy of Judahpraise and is up for bid on eBay as item # 120911357215.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

[N4 Jamaica]

Often as a child, I passed the scenes shown in the last two posts at that time frame (that is after the C streetcar became the Bx20 bus and before Yonkers lost streetcars). Please allow a comment.
The Interborough was not extended further north on Broadway. In 1908, it stopped a mile-and-a-half south of the City Line. As now, subway passengers could leave the train and get transit to Yonkers. Different from now (because we have transfers on Metrocards), a separate fare was required on the streetcar.
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A passenger already on the C streetcar or the Bx20 bus would lose money transferring here. Northbound, one rode the Bronx surface route to the City Line and then awaited a 1, 2, or 3 streetcar. People boarding at the City Line got a receipt. At the park just short of McLean Avenue, the motorman walked through the car and collected the receipts instead of a second zone fare. The fare zones (Bronx and Yonkers) overlapped between the City Line and McLean Avenue.
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Nowadays, Bee Line routes 1, 2, and 3 board here, just as the streetcars did. Their northern terminals have been extended to several branches. Streetcar route 3 was merely from the Subway to Getty Square. In the 1940's streetcar route 1 ended at the Yonkers-Hastings City Line. Streetcar route 2 ended at Roberts Avenue.
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On the west side of Broadway, White Castle or White Tower has been replaced by Burger King.
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I don't know what part of the Arcadia publishing process leads to my generalized complaints about the series: 1) too frequent publication of murky photos; 2) errors in captions. I wonder whether Arcadia rushes authors through the proofing, or if is a penalty clause against delays for fact-checking. In this case, streetcar route 1 was Broadway-Warburton. Streetcar route 2 was Broadway-ParkAvenue. Arcadia has the designations reversed.
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Joe McMahon

[RailBus63]

[HwyHaulier]

Joe - Jim - All -


Noted and agree with Jim's comments concerning ARCADIA works. Guess it would help to dig around, and get familiar
with its actual production requirements? (I haven't reviewed myself.) In any case, my perception is the works are
more or less "vanity press" genre.

Any of the works we see, and many most helpful and useful, tend to result from editorial and publication decisions by
the individual writer. With that in mind, not all works in classic manner, adhering to NYT Style and Use Guide, or
comparable standards.

.......................Vern...................

[Mr. Linsky]

If anyone would have ever told me that some idiot bought a used Mack bus from Avenue B and East Broadway Transit (NY) I would have said that the guy had to have had rocks in his head!

Nevertheless, I did happen and can be seen below in a March 1970 shot on Metropolitan Avenue at 69th. Street in Middle Village, Queens as fleet # 416 - a 1951 Model C-45-DT operating for the little known S.I. Transit Company, Inc.

This would have been the third life for this bus which was originally delivered to Bee Line, Inc. of Rockville Centre, New York as their fleet # 516 and was sold to Avenue B ten years later (you can still see Avenue B's decal covered by an American flag under the first passenger window).

The caption that accompanied the photo claimed that the 'S.I' stood for Staten Island but I question that because I know of no private operators left in that borough by 1970 and I think that getting this bus to make the climb back and forth over the Verrazano Bridge would really have been pushing the envelope! (but, who knows!).

Photo courtesy of jpspcc699 and has been sold on eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[B53RICH]

Looks like 416 was parked in front of the old Niederstein's Restaurant.

[traildriver]

[Mr. Linsky]

In another wonderful photo from back when brought to us courtesy of the New York City Archive (Borough President Queens file) we see fleet number 820 - a 1939 Mack Model CM-3G and one of twenty-five likenesses numbered 801 to 825 delivered in that year to Green Bus Lines, Inc. then of Cornell Park, New York.

The 40 passenger Mack Model CM, which was one of that manufacturer's last, largest and most popular pre war transits, featured an air clutch which eliminated the clutch peddle and made for a much smoother ride.

Green Line's CM's, which included another ten the following year numbered from 851 to 860, were purchased for World's Fair service and sported the expo's familiar Trylon and Perishere logos within their livery.

# 820 is seen on June 13th. 1943 at a rather busy stop in the Roxbury section of Breezy Point in Rockaway, Queens probably readying for a trip back to Brooklyn via the then Marine Parkway Bridge and Flatbush Avenue.

Of note are the line stanchions supported by concrete filled surplus bus wheels (they didn't call it Breezy Point for nothing).

Photo available for sale as item # 07494-17C

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc. Jamaica, New York